Thank you Emily (Mrs. Wadley!). I loved your piece and have thought about it a lot since reading it. I also loved hearing you read it in the latest podcast episode. I have similarly felt pulled to examining each of my polygamous wife ancestors. I also found myself typing each of them into a Google doc, with little notes on each person. I want to go further and research each story individually when I have the energy and time to. It feels important that these women are known.
Thank you, I enjoyed each piece. All so different, and yet similar as spoke from the heart.
I have looked at the polygamous history of my heritage a bit in my family tree, but never thought to count and write down all the names.
Even still I think I would likely miss some. There were several step parents due to death, and at least a couple who were raised more by aunts and great aunts and cousins. It it sobering to think of all the women that impact those before me.
A quote from Mer really resonated with the latest leg of my journey, after two of my three kids left church in their teens,
"I feel burned, having given my whole life to a people and an organization that couldn’t step up, love and nurture my kids in an expansive enough way for them to receive its gifts."
I just attended an activity held in a church for delivering God's love, and they're Mormons, most of them are from BYU.
I wrote an article back home from the church, but I only shared a bit thought of this religion and mainly wrote about the importance of letting students find their own passions for life in college, instead of making schools operate like an employment center.
It was my first time, so the preachers didn't mention too much about the religious stuff and only showed us a short video about the journey of believing the existence of God.
My surprise on that night was that both the preachers were so young, one just graduated from high school and the other was under 25. They believe God loves everyone and will lead people to the right path. Without experiencing anything sorrowful, helpless, or unredeemable, how do they make people to believe by only reciting the words from Bible?
Maybe they truly have the spiritual connection with the higher power, or they were raised by believing that religion was the absolute in life.
I don't know, but I'll keep going to the activity once a week, maybe one day I will be exiled from the church for asking 'sinful questions.'
Emily. “...the man taking from the woman what only her Creator could give—her divine agency.” Your essay is beautiful and I have no further questions. Thank you for sharing the names. I am so touched by how you honor them and their sacrifice by saying their names. I’m going to do this for the women in my family tree.
I’d love to hear about your experience if you feel to share it. Sobering for sure, but also connecting in a way that has brought me some rest. Much love~
I just want to say thank you to those that are sharing in this community! Thank you for sharing your personal stories. And thank you for the opportunity to think more deeply and examine more closely some of the closely held 'beliefs' I have had all my life. I've never been a big fan of change, but I realize now that growth comes in change. And for that I am also grateful!
Sometimes I have waited in that "liminal hallway" because I didn't have the energy to choose a door, and that's ok too! Time is usually on your side, deep breaths, self care when needed.
That is such a great analogy! Sometimes it feels like there is a rush to do something different or make big decisions. But it took me this many years to get to where I am now, so giving myself some grace to move through whatever comes next can take whatever amount of time it needs to, as well! I just need to remember that. Thank you, Cynthia!
Mer's story is my story. 3 boys. 1st son leaves - it's just him. 2nd son leaves - he's just copying his brother. 3rd son leaves, wait...are WE the problem?" SO much soul searching, crying, therapy, temple attendance, fasting blah, blah, blah - until, finally, peace. They are loved and known. They are not meant to be in this community right now. It is not conducive to who they are and I REFUSE to feel less than because of it. My husband died 8 years ago in the midst of some distance with the boys. The night he died, my oldest son, the one I thought judged me the most (or is it that I judged the most...?), came into my room, cleaned up all the hospital-y stuff, stripped my bed, cleaned my sheets and turned my room into my room again. I knew without question, that we are AMAZING parents and I've never questioned it since. All 3 of these men know how to serve, be kind, turn the other cheek, and cheerfully accept another man into their mom's life without any drama or fear about their eternal family. I love my faith community and what it has given me, but I know it's not for everyone and in fact SHOULDN'T be for some. I honor all that know themselves enough to know the difference.
Looking through my tears as I text a response, Katie. What I love beneath your words…dropping way down in there to find the real answer, love’s answer, to whether we and our children are good, ok and still in Gods arms. Big hug to you 🩵
Mer, when I taught writing at Snow College (2013-2015) I read many essays by young men who either did not serve a mission or who returned early. They shared heartbreaking descriptions of how they were ill- treated by parents, siblings, neighbors, and church leaders. My own heart broke to witness their deep sorrow, embarrassment, bitterness, and self doubt. I felt God’s words coming from my mouth as I counseled with them and poured out the loving messages they needed to hear. My own two returned missionary sons are now 44 and want nothing to do with religion of any sort. Life’s ironies just keep coming!
Thank you Mer for sharing your story. My children (son/daughter) have also chosen not to pursue a mission or temple marriage and to follow the prescribed path. They have struggled to find themselves and while it’s often frustrating, it’s been amazing to watch them grow and learn and find their way. They are amazing regardless of the lack of the RM label and “active” status in the church. The world is so big, expansive, beautiful, and theirs to find their own way.
I loved this (modified to include my daughter):
“What if God’s just been turning us into the parents our “kids” need us to be?”
Thanks for the realization that they are not lost.
I LOVED reading all the pieces, but was especially struck by Mer’s article. As I’ve been on my own faith journey for a while now, I’m trying to figure out how much of the “church” to give my very young family. I disagree with a lot that church says and does. To be honest, there’s not much I can support. I go occasionally because I enjoy being with a community of women and men trying to live good lives. But I’m getting ever more comfortable with the thought that my boys may find that type of community elsewhere. Plus, I’m hard pressed to pass on the trauma I experienced in the church over a myriad of issues. I just hope that in the end my boys find their own way to be happy and live a truly fulfilling life - no matter what that looks like.
You're not alone, Carrie! We hear from so many mothers who are trying to figure out how to best navigate their own faith journey while parenting kids. It's complicated! Watch for an upcoming episode with Mer where we asked her advice on this question! She has a lot of wisdom to share.
This line from Met Monson’s essay spoke my heart: I feel burned, having given my whole life to a people and an organization that couldn’t step up, love and nurture my kids in an expansive enough way for them to receive its gifts. Four of my five children no longer attend church and I fully get why.
The church's narrative on polygamy is definitely a not-well-thought-out male centered narrative. I realized recently that the church's gospel essay on polygamy claims things that are blatantly untrue. It insinuates polygamy produces more babies. Not possible. How could less sex and semen mean more babies? Only created more babies for certain specific men. Claims it created wealth. If it created wealth for a few people, it created even more poverty and desperation for others. How could having fewer men helping provide for families make a society richer? Claims many prophets have been commanded to practice polygamy. This is based 100% on Joseph's bizarre passage in D&C 132, not at all in the bible, which never claims this; it was a cultural practice in the ancient world. And there are errors in Joseph's text. Isaac didn't practice polygamy. The essay is also based on a misreading of Jacob 2:29-30, which really should be read as "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people to practice my laws of monogamy and chastity; otherwise they shall hearken unto these immoral and harmful things that David and Solomon did." When you find "otherwise" statements in the scriptures, it's typically something bad, and the B of Mormon makes it clear raising up seed is about faithfulness to God, not number of babies. Our leaders need to read The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy and edit their essay-- as it is, it is completely unworthy of publication.
After I read the Gospel Topics essay on polygamy, I read every single reference to plural marriage in the Old Testament to try to find what Joseph Smith was referring to. There was NOT one reference that commanded that practice. They were all descriptive of a societal practice. NONE were prescriptive. In my way of thinking, the Gospel Topic essay was one more attempt to justify a practice that is not justifiable. The writers aren't even trying to be truthful. Full Stop. It is also the case that numerous studies have been done showing that fertility rates among polygamous marriages were actually lower than the norms for monogamous marriages. The polygamous wives had fewer babies. No many issues around this.
I just edited it to make it clearer but here is the original one from my husband Dennis you responded to in case people want to see it: "Let me make myself very clear: One wife only. No concubines. And don't think that by calling them your wife or concubine you are not violating these women and committing whoredoms. If you don't do this, the land will be cursed. I have to command you on this thing--strict monogamy--so that I can indeed "raise up seed unto me" (refers to righteous branch from earlier in chapter). If I don't, then you're going to fall into this polygamy crap. Hearken to me, not to these things that David and Solomon did."
it reminds me of how Adam Miller writes 'urgent parphrases', like his book on Romans, Ecclesiastes, etc. We need a Jacob 2 paraphrase........and now we have one! Kudos to your hubby. Because if Jacob 2 condemns the breaking of a wife's heart, then how can that ever, EVER be justified?
Wow. It struck me that the narrative of polygamy is NEVER told through the eyes of women. We hear stories of the poor men wrongfully imprisoned for their beliefs. But women? Devils or fools is a beautiful and fierce description.
There are some moving autobiographies out there, with more coming. As an Allred, I have found tremendous insight into the layers of the lives of these women. Most of them were, and are, mired in misery. These books are available in most public libraries.
Reading the stories of the women in Saints V2 is what broke any lingering sympathy and willingness to suspend judgement for me. It angered me how alone they were - married, impregnated, then abandoned while the men hid. And then expected to “glorify God” publicly for how blessed they were. While feeling alone, abandoned, and expected to lie to protect themselves and their husbands.
The lying, deceit, and the trail of broken families involved in polygamy from day one was what convinced me it was not of God but of man and Satan.
***Idol of belief! Now that’s an idol worth addressing and discussing .
***the women 😭 all the women 😭 I have had several discussions with women about how we are still living our grandmothers lives . Unhappy and empty marriages stayed in for a multitude of reasons. With all we have read and we have accomplished still so stuck.
Thank you for a safe and informative & safe and
Supportive space to learn the language we have all been painfully lacking around our journeys .
Also, I have shared many podcast episodes with my husband, and he learns a lot and really appreciates all of them. He also has been learning a lot and started looking at things differently than through white male privilege. Life is an experience.
All of these pieces are amazing! 🙌 Thank you to all of the authors for vulnerably sharing with us. ❤️ I especially loved listening to Emily's essay. Thank you, Emily, for honoring your mother's mothers by so clearly articulating what happened to them:
"the man taking from the woman what only her Creator could give—her divine agency."
Truly loved this issue, feeling so grateful to have more support at my fingertips than ‘just’ the podcast each week I always do look forward to! Each writing was food for my soul to hear!! Especially Mer’s for me. I have four boys and the oldest is 16 and has no desire for a mission or even church most days too. I’m always wondering if I’m messing up and I also feel insane when I leave the confines of our very close immediate family as well. So, thank you!!!
Wonderful!
Thank you Emily (Mrs. Wadley!). I loved your piece and have thought about it a lot since reading it. I also loved hearing you read it in the latest podcast episode. I have similarly felt pulled to examining each of my polygamous wife ancestors. I also found myself typing each of them into a Google doc, with little notes on each person. I want to go further and research each story individually when I have the energy and time to. It feels important that these women are known.
Thank you, I enjoyed each piece. All so different, and yet similar as spoke from the heart.
I have looked at the polygamous history of my heritage a bit in my family tree, but never thought to count and write down all the names.
Even still I think I would likely miss some. There were several step parents due to death, and at least a couple who were raised more by aunts and great aunts and cousins. It it sobering to think of all the women that impact those before me.
All of these essays left meaningful impressions.
A quote from Mer really resonated with the latest leg of my journey, after two of my three kids left church in their teens,
"I feel burned, having given my whole life to a people and an organization that couldn’t step up, love and nurture my kids in an expansive enough way for them to receive its gifts."
as a mama whose daughters left, i echo every word of this. the church just couldn't hold onto my beautiful girls.
I just attended an activity held in a church for delivering God's love, and they're Mormons, most of them are from BYU.
I wrote an article back home from the church, but I only shared a bit thought of this religion and mainly wrote about the importance of letting students find their own passions for life in college, instead of making schools operate like an employment center.
It was my first time, so the preachers didn't mention too much about the religious stuff and only showed us a short video about the journey of believing the existence of God.
My surprise on that night was that both the preachers were so young, one just graduated from high school and the other was under 25. They believe God loves everyone and will lead people to the right path. Without experiencing anything sorrowful, helpless, or unredeemable, how do they make people to believe by only reciting the words from Bible?
Maybe they truly have the spiritual connection with the higher power, or they were raised by believing that religion was the absolute in life.
I don't know, but I'll keep going to the activity once a week, maybe one day I will be exiled from the church for asking 'sinful questions.'
Emily. “...the man taking from the woman what only her Creator could give—her divine agency.” Your essay is beautiful and I have no further questions. Thank you for sharing the names. I am so touched by how you honor them and their sacrifice by saying their names. I’m going to do this for the women in my family tree.
I’d love to hear about your experience if you feel to share it. Sobering for sure, but also connecting in a way that has brought me some rest. Much love~
I’m literally on Family Search right now!
I just want to say thank you to those that are sharing in this community! Thank you for sharing your personal stories. And thank you for the opportunity to think more deeply and examine more closely some of the closely held 'beliefs' I have had all my life. I've never been a big fan of change, but I realize now that growth comes in change. And for that I am also grateful!
Sometimes I have waited in that "liminal hallway" because I didn't have the energy to choose a door, and that's ok too! Time is usually on your side, deep breaths, self care when needed.
That is such a great analogy! Sometimes it feels like there is a rush to do something different or make big decisions. But it took me this many years to get to where I am now, so giving myself some grace to move through whatever comes next can take whatever amount of time it needs to, as well! I just need to remember that. Thank you, Cynthia!
Mer's story is my story. 3 boys. 1st son leaves - it's just him. 2nd son leaves - he's just copying his brother. 3rd son leaves, wait...are WE the problem?" SO much soul searching, crying, therapy, temple attendance, fasting blah, blah, blah - until, finally, peace. They are loved and known. They are not meant to be in this community right now. It is not conducive to who they are and I REFUSE to feel less than because of it. My husband died 8 years ago in the midst of some distance with the boys. The night he died, my oldest son, the one I thought judged me the most (or is it that I judged the most...?), came into my room, cleaned up all the hospital-y stuff, stripped my bed, cleaned my sheets and turned my room into my room again. I knew without question, that we are AMAZING parents and I've never questioned it since. All 3 of these men know how to serve, be kind, turn the other cheek, and cheerfully accept another man into their mom's life without any drama or fear about their eternal family. I love my faith community and what it has given me, but I know it's not for everyone and in fact SHOULDN'T be for some. I honor all that know themselves enough to know the difference.
thank you for this beautiful window into your life and of your boys amidst such heartbreak.
Looking through my tears as I text a response, Katie. What I love beneath your words…dropping way down in there to find the real answer, love’s answer, to whether we and our children are good, ok and still in Gods arms. Big hug to you 🩵
Mer, when I taught writing at Snow College (2013-2015) I read many essays by young men who either did not serve a mission or who returned early. They shared heartbreaking descriptions of how they were ill- treated by parents, siblings, neighbors, and church leaders. My own heart broke to witness their deep sorrow, embarrassment, bitterness, and self doubt. I felt God’s words coming from my mouth as I counseled with them and poured out the loving messages they needed to hear. My own two returned missionary sons are now 44 and want nothing to do with religion of any sort. Life’s ironies just keep coming!
I’m so glad you were a voice of love for those young men! Thx for sharing your story Kelli🤍
Thank you Mer for sharing your story. My children (son/daughter) have also chosen not to pursue a mission or temple marriage and to follow the prescribed path. They have struggled to find themselves and while it’s often frustrating, it’s been amazing to watch them grow and learn and find their way. They are amazing regardless of the lack of the RM label and “active” status in the church. The world is so big, expansive, beautiful, and theirs to find their own way.
I loved this (modified to include my daughter):
“What if God’s just been turning us into the parents our “kids” need us to be?”
Thanks for the realization that they are not lost.
“The world is so big, expansive, beautiful, and theirs.” YES! Thank you Heidi🤍
I loved that quote too! When I read that line, I knew I wanted to highlight it. Thanks for sharing a piece of your own experience, Heidi!
I LOVED reading all the pieces, but was especially struck by Mer’s article. As I’ve been on my own faith journey for a while now, I’m trying to figure out how much of the “church” to give my very young family. I disagree with a lot that church says and does. To be honest, there’s not much I can support. I go occasionally because I enjoy being with a community of women and men trying to live good lives. But I’m getting ever more comfortable with the thought that my boys may find that type of community elsewhere. Plus, I’m hard pressed to pass on the trauma I experienced in the church over a myriad of issues. I just hope that in the end my boys find their own way to be happy and live a truly fulfilling life - no matter what that looks like.
Your clearing vision is already such a gift to your kids. And I’m throwing my hope in there, right next to yours.🎈
You're not alone, Carrie! We hear from so many mothers who are trying to figure out how to best navigate their own faith journey while parenting kids. It's complicated! Watch for an upcoming episode with Mer where we asked her advice on this question! She has a lot of wisdom to share.
This line from Met Monson’s essay spoke my heart: I feel burned, having given my whole life to a people and an organization that couldn’t step up, love and nurture my kids in an expansive enough way for them to receive its gifts. Four of my five children no longer attend church and I fully get why.
🩵🩵🩵 It feels healing to acknowledge the anger, a doorway into somewhere better for all of us. Love to you, Susan.
Same same same. 💔
The church's narrative on polygamy is definitely a not-well-thought-out male centered narrative. I realized recently that the church's gospel essay on polygamy claims things that are blatantly untrue. It insinuates polygamy produces more babies. Not possible. How could less sex and semen mean more babies? Only created more babies for certain specific men. Claims it created wealth. If it created wealth for a few people, it created even more poverty and desperation for others. How could having fewer men helping provide for families make a society richer? Claims many prophets have been commanded to practice polygamy. This is based 100% on Joseph's bizarre passage in D&C 132, not at all in the bible, which never claims this; it was a cultural practice in the ancient world. And there are errors in Joseph's text. Isaac didn't practice polygamy. The essay is also based on a misreading of Jacob 2:29-30, which really should be read as "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people to practice my laws of monogamy and chastity; otherwise they shall hearken unto these immoral and harmful things that David and Solomon did." When you find "otherwise" statements in the scriptures, it's typically something bad, and the B of Mormon makes it clear raising up seed is about faithfulness to God, not number of babies. Our leaders need to read The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy and edit their essay-- as it is, it is completely unworthy of publication.
After I read the Gospel Topics essay on polygamy, I read every single reference to plural marriage in the Old Testament to try to find what Joseph Smith was referring to. There was NOT one reference that commanded that practice. They were all descriptive of a societal practice. NONE were prescriptive. In my way of thinking, the Gospel Topic essay was one more attempt to justify a practice that is not justifiable. The writers aren't even trying to be truthful. Full Stop. It is also the case that numerous studies have been done showing that fertility rates among polygamous marriages were actually lower than the norms for monogamous marriages. The polygamous wives had fewer babies. No many issues around this.
Love that paraphrase. AMEN!
I just edited it to make it clearer but here is the original one from my husband Dennis you responded to in case people want to see it: "Let me make myself very clear: One wife only. No concubines. And don't think that by calling them your wife or concubine you are not violating these women and committing whoredoms. If you don't do this, the land will be cursed. I have to command you on this thing--strict monogamy--so that I can indeed "raise up seed unto me" (refers to righteous branch from earlier in chapter). If I don't, then you're going to fall into this polygamy crap. Hearken to me, not to these things that David and Solomon did."
it reminds me of how Adam Miller writes 'urgent parphrases', like his book on Romans, Ecclesiastes, etc. We need a Jacob 2 paraphrase........and now we have one! Kudos to your hubby. Because if Jacob 2 condemns the breaking of a wife's heart, then how can that ever, EVER be justified?
Wow. It struck me that the narrative of polygamy is NEVER told through the eyes of women. We hear stories of the poor men wrongfully imprisoned for their beliefs. But women? Devils or fools is a beautiful and fierce description.
There are some moving autobiographies out there, with more coming. As an Allred, I have found tremendous insight into the layers of the lives of these women. Most of them were, and are, mired in misery. These books are available in most public libraries.
Reading the stories of the women in Saints V2 is what broke any lingering sympathy and willingness to suspend judgement for me. It angered me how alone they were - married, impregnated, then abandoned while the men hid. And then expected to “glorify God” publicly for how blessed they were. While feeling alone, abandoned, and expected to lie to protect themselves and their husbands.
The lying, deceit, and the trail of broken families involved in polygamy from day one was what convinced me it was not of God but of man and Satan.
Hearing her read the names of those 56 women just killed me. I felt heavy for days after the first time I listened. —S.
***Idol of belief! Now that’s an idol worth addressing and discussing .
***the women 😭 all the women 😭 I have had several discussions with women about how we are still living our grandmothers lives . Unhappy and empty marriages stayed in for a multitude of reasons. With all we have read and we have accomplished still so stuck.
Thank you for a safe and informative & safe and
Supportive space to learn the language we have all been painfully lacking around our journeys .
Also, I have shared many podcast episodes with my husband, and he learns a lot and really appreciates all of them. He also has been learning a lot and started looking at things differently than through white male privilege. Life is an experience.
"Still so stuck" indeed, in some ways. It's breathtaking when I glimpse it sometimes. Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts, Kim!
All of these pieces are amazing! 🙌 Thank you to all of the authors for vulnerably sharing with us. ❤️ I especially loved listening to Emily's essay. Thank you, Emily, for honoring your mother's mothers by so clearly articulating what happened to them:
"the man taking from the woman what only her Creator could give—her divine agency."
it's a must listen, way more 'absorbing power' than just reading it!
Truly loved this issue, feeling so grateful to have more support at my fingertips than ‘just’ the podcast each week I always do look forward to! Each writing was food for my soul to hear!! Especially Mer’s for me. I have four boys and the oldest is 16 and has no desire for a mission or even church most days too. I’m always wondering if I’m messing up and I also feel insane when I leave the confines of our very close immediate family as well. So, thank you!!!
Thank you Pam. Lots of love to you🤍
we're definitely trying to amplify more voices!